Dr. Milo T. Pinkerton III ([info]doctorpinkerton) wrote,
@ 2008-10-11 11:04:00
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Current music:C.O.G. - 'It's Morally Wrong' (the testbed debugging song)
Entry tags:c.o.g. stage tech

Confessions of a techno luddite!
What can I say, I like tech that works, and I like learning as much as possible about a piece of technology that proves itself. For this reason, I have an annoying tendency to keep using certain pieces of software and hardware WELL past their prime. Here's some cases in point: what do I edit all my videos with? Premiere 4.3, from 1996! My favorite DAW? Cakewalk 9, from 1999. My go-to WAV editor? CoolEdit96. C.O.G.'s stage video servers? OLD Amiga computers! (in fact, all the computers in the rack are rigged up to use an Amiga bus mouse for easy parallel KBM switching.) And what's the main computer the C.O.G. stage show's actually running on? Why no less than a 350Mhz AMD K6 based system (underclocked AT motherboard!) What's it running for an OS? Would you believe - Windows 95 OSR2?!??


C.O.G. Show Rack circa 2008



There's a method to my madness - it's called not making work for myself when such effort would bring me right back to where I started. I don't believe in putting out ANY effort if the audience can't perceive it - so if it ain't broke... A good case in point is the sound card that our sound is really based around. Drumbot's signature drum sound, the basis of the C.O.G.'s sound since 1996, is the Turtle Beach Tropez Plus sound card. This is a full length ISA sound card, and a very finicky one at that - and this is precisely the reason I'm using the antiquated motherboard, OS (no NT drivers for this card!) etc. But the MIDI sounds are the most important thing, and they're solid. The Tropez Plus is based on the Crystal Wavefront sound chip and has built in multi-effects and 12MB of sample uploading capability with easy patch editing. A bunch of the general MIDI sounds in our palette are samples I made myself, including all cymbal sounds. Even pro drum machines cannot match my cymbals (though drum sampling libraries have surpassed them in the last couple years.) When C.O.G. started out 12 years ago, it was about as good as you could get, esp. for the midi sounds.

I know I COULD just go over to going onstage to pre-mixed tracks, but I've refused to go that way. It just seems wrong... playing to a 'tape'. The sounds we use are all (well mostly) MIDI triggered samples. The keyboardist is a phantom and the drummer is a cartoon, but they ARE actually playing their parts. And the keyboardist MAY still get a virtual identity at some point in the future... not to mention, even if we went to linear WAV files for all our onstage sound tracks, I'd still need MIDI to drive the lights, video, etc.

Now this Tropez is a total dinosaur that admittedly takes way too long to load its sound banks (ISA bus, remember?), but I'm loathe to simply jump ship to a modern PCI sound card; our drum sounds would change for the worse (I haven't heard a good modern soundcard sample set yet) and amenities like onboard multieffects are out of vogue. When Creative bought up Turtle Beach, they ditched the Crystal Wavefront architecture. There is no worthy successor to the Tropez Plus in my opinion (the only other one I ever considered was the Kurtzweil chip based 'Pinnacle' sound card, also by Turtle Beach. Unfortunately it's also an ISA card!) Modern sound cards are about either delivering 5.1 surround for immersive gameplay (with fallback support for old school capabilities like MIDI), or absolutely purity of WAV reproduction with no support for MIDI sounds at all. This isn't what I'm after though!

Believe it or not, my caveman approach to tech actually seems to help more frequently than it hinders me. By combining modern hardware with old hardware and software, I can get things done EXTREMELY quickly - old software runs like a bat out of hell on modern hardware, when it can be made stable (and it can if you know how). I run for literally YEARS on the same stable configurations - the final output is really my ONLY concern! But occasionally it costs me some time at those rare junctions when I have to advance. The domino theory sometimes comes into effect...

Like just this last week. I shook up the show setup when I suddenly felt the urge to add DMX lighting control to the show system, in order to replace a klunky light board that never played well with my moving fixtures anyway. So I bought a Velleman DMX to USB interface and wrote a nice little applet to run my lights via MIDI control from the same computer the sequencer's running on. I tested it on my main computer and it worked. So the rest would probably be simple, right? Welllll... one little problem (domino #1) - Win95, which has ably and stably run my show setup for all these years, doesn't grok USB. There's a patch for adding USB to 95, but it's not actually stable or anything. And when I'm onstage, I above all need to be able to rely on my machines!

So, adding USB necessitated a move from Win95 OSR2 to Win98b. Only problem is, when I do that, my sequences, esp. the WAV audio intensive ones (streamed from disk), STOP in the middle of playback! Kicking back to my stable image of Win95, the problem goes away. What's going on, hmmmn!? Those two OS's are quite similar, and I'm having a hard time believing that USB's background overhead in the kernel is causing that strain. I'm considering the problem as possibly hard drive DMA, a squirrely IRQ conflict (remember those?), or simply a hard drive in the process of going out. So it's time do do some swapping back and forth between the various copies of the show computer hard drive (they're in handy pullout drive racks) and get this show stable again! I've got music to play tomorrow night and lights to program to be ready for the occasion.



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[info]squidflakes
2008-10-11 06:07 pm UTC (link)
There is a reason why the computers on the Space Shuttle are antiquated. They work and work well, and why spend all the money researching and bug fixing and etc, when you've got something that does the job?

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[info]soundwave106
2008-10-11 10:06 pm UTC (link)
The only reason is when manufacturers stop making the chip that you've been using. :)

(My father's last job was managing a project to convert one of the old shuttle control boards into a more modern design -- the design they were replacing was driven by an 8088 CPU, and that's starting to get impossible to find.)

Pretty much the way around a Tropez card, in a modern architecture would be to reprogram the sounds using the absurd amount of VST samplers and effects available. That of course would dump more of the synthesizing on the CPU, but with the absurd power today's CPUs have, this is not a problem. More of an issue would be to rip or re-sample any base sounds on the Tropaz. Ugh.

I see no problem combining old and new. Though I recently updated my studio with a lot of modern stuff, I still have some "vintage" stuff I find use for -- such as an old D-50, a MMT-8 sequencer, and a Dimension C chorus (all 1980s units) that I picked up used in the early 1990s.

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[info]doctorpinkerton
2008-10-11 10:20 pm UTC (link)
Yeah, I've thought about that approach, but keep coming back to the fact that it would be a lot of work for very little improvement if any, and it simply wouldn't sound the same. So here I remain; at least the current system still works well for what we're doing, but this USB problem is (still) giving me fits.

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[info]wormquartet
2008-10-11 09:51 pm UTC (link)
..What are you doing with the Atari 400? I am thoroughly intrigued.

-=ShoEboX=-

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[info]doctorpinkerton
2008-10-11 10:09 pm UTC (link)
Oh, that! It's acting as a lighting controller, with 4 sets of 4 lights driven by its joystick ports. My lights and dimmer packs are all homebrew, and use heavy duty OMRON output modules to switch the AC to the lamps. The Atari is running a cartridge with a PROM program (written by me) that takes MIDI information from a Wizztronics interface and pulses the joystick ports with pulse width modulation.

Due to the overbuilt nature of the Atari hardware, it's damned reliable!

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[info]ultraken
2008-10-12 02:41 am UTC (link)
I used to have one of those Atari trackballs, and I played Centipede, Millipede, and Missile Command on the Atari 800 with it.

I wish I still had the Atari 800 or 130XE, but they stayed at my parents' house and got donated years ago. Both would probably still work even now, but emulation takes the sting out of the loss. In any case, I'd have to work out where to put it and how to connect it to my monitor.

(I also miss the Amiga 500 a bit since a few games didn't like the Amiga 3000. I did keep the 3000, but the internal drive died a while back and I haven't replaced it. I should fix that, but SCSI drives are annoying expensive.)

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[info]doctorpinkerton
2008-10-12 05:52 am UTC (link)
This one's modified to be an Amiga style bus mouse. It's also extremely overbuilt; practically the same innards as the one in my upright Atari Centipede (my first MAME conversion.) The Amigas read this mouse directly. The PC's are fitted with slightly modified old school bus mouse cards. (My main computer can also accomodate this type of mouse, but had no ISA slots so I had to make an Amiga mouse to USB adaptor, which wasn't as hard as it sounds.)

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[info]ultraken
2008-10-12 08:05 pm UTC (link)
That's handy. What did you have to do to it to make that work?

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[info]doctorpinkerton
2008-10-12 08:19 pm UTC (link)
Well, to make it brief, a bus mouse simply transmits buffered copies of the X and Y quad signals that the optos inside get from the spinning interruptors. So you can take a USB ball mouse apart and hook a 9 pin din port up in place of the optos, and if it's wired right, it'll work fine with an Amiga mouse (or an Amiga compatible trakball, in this case!)

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[info]wormquartet
2008-10-12 12:45 pm UTC (link)
Drop an e-mail to me at shoebox at wormquartet.com - I've got a couple of extra 130XEs (in the box, no less) along with disk drives, etc. that are going on eBay really flippin' soon.

-=ShoEboX=-

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[info]doctorpinkerton
2008-10-12 03:36 pm UTC (link)
Thanks Shoebox, but go ahead and put 'em up there... I've got enough Atari spare parts over here to last a lunchtime!

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[info]wormquartet
2008-10-12 03:40 pm UTC (link)
I was talking to the dude what done got his Atari stuffs all throwed away by his parents.

-=ShoEboX=-

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[info]doctorpinkerton
2008-10-12 04:01 pm UTC (link)
Oh, whoops sorry! Carry on

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[info]ultraken
2008-10-13 01:49 am UTC (link)
To be fair, they didn't throw it away. They don't really know what happened to it, but they suspect it got left behind after their house in the New Orleans area finally sold, and they didn't want to drive back from Austin yet again.

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[info]ultraken
2008-10-12 08:14 pm UTC (link)
I appreciate the offer, but it'd probably end up just like the PS2 and Xbox I bought from people at work--still sitting in the floor, not connected to anything. :)

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[info]ultraken
2008-10-12 08:17 pm UTC (link)
I'd seriously consider it if I could find my game disks and cartridges, though.

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[info]wormquartet
2008-10-12 12:56 pm UTC (link)
That...is entirely too fucking cool.

I never burned an Atari PROM. Granted, everything I ever wrote on the Atari was either in BASIC or (brace yourself) Pilot. But my Dad did a decent amount of Assembly programming on the 800 back in the day.

I stopped programming on the Atari in...um...1992, I think. I was working on a Star Trek parody graphical RPG thing in BASIC, ran out of memory when I was about 1/3 of the way done, decided I'd get back to it when I was less frustrated, and then discovered the glory of compilable BASIC on the PC. I still keep my 130XE set up, but only for gaming and/or writing two line programs to test joysticks (ye olde "10 print stick(0); strig(0) - 20 goto 10")

/8-bit reminiscence ejaculation

-=ShoEboX=-

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[info]doctorpinkerton
2008-10-12 03:42 pm UTC (link)
I got a bit farther in the mid to late 80's... taught myself machine language in high school on the thing and was writing games and demos. Some of my BBS demos made it all over the world!

I had started a huge three part game called 'Rescue Mission' which was never completed but the second part was leaked at some point and is out there on some collections. Back in the day, I thought cartridge programming was 'magic' but these days my arcade restoration hobby gives me easy access to stuff like a PROM burner, and the Rana disk drive that powered the light computer was going out, hence the cart.

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[info]wormquartet
2008-10-14 02:02 pm UTC (link)
GODDAMIT STOP BEING COOLER THAN ME!

Yeah. I started young but developed a devotion to BASIC that ultimately crippled me (though I did ultimately write my own sprite editor and get joystick and SoundBlaster support working on QuickBasic 4.5.) Not including some calls from Atari BASIC that I really didn't understand, I didn't touch Assembly 'til college.

Some of my QB-written PC games (and .MOD files) made it all over the world via BBSs back in the day, but I have no links to prove this. :)

-=ShoEboX=-

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[info]doctorpinkerton
2008-10-14 04:31 pm UTC (link)
Sorry man, as a cross between Buckaroo Banzai gone bad and a deliriously devious Doc Savage, it's just what I do!

Don't even MAKE me start talking about how I created the functional (and fully working) equivalent of a flash animation/music system for Atari BBS's back in 1986...

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[info]tikibilly
2008-10-12 11:35 am UTC (link)
I've got a TRS80 model III in my attic if you want to add to your collection of antiquated computing machines (Tandy and Texas Instruments seem to be unrepresented). I picked it up a few years ago a Thrift City when they used to be on Tulane and Carrollton. I wish it had the internal disk drives, but apparently the original owner used the cassette deck for storage. It was fun for a few hours, trying to remember all the PEEKs and POKEs from my high school BASIC computer classes. Then I turned it off, and lost everything. Well worth the $6 I paid for it.

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[info]wormquartet
2008-10-12 03:40 pm UTC (link)
I'll take it if he doesn't want it. I don't have a TRS-80 yet. :)

-=ShoEboX=-

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[info]doctorpinkerton
2008-10-12 03:56 pm UTC (link)
Oh wow. No, I never really wanted to start a computer museum! I just like helpful machines that work, that's all!!!

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Preach it, bro!
[info]cybrludite
2008-10-18 08:48 am UTC (link)
While not at deep into it as you are, my computers tend to stay on the bleeding edge of obsolescence. (That'[s also the source of my online handle) My current machine is a Dell C610 laptop, and I only switched to that because it was free, and much more portable than my 1999 vintage homebuilt Win 98 desktop. (Portability being a big issue after Katrina...) I figure if it does what I need it to do, why bother with getting the latest hottest piece of kit? I'll let someone else beta-test whatever Microsoft is peddling this week. Next update, I'm just going to go with some flavor of Linux. Vista & OS X are just proprietary GUIs on top of Linux anyhow, I may as well cut out the middleman...

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Re: Preach it, bro!
[info]doctorpinkerton
2008-10-18 03:05 pm UTC (link)
Wow, my laptop is a C610 as well, running Win 2000... on the other hand, I hardly ever use the thing for anything but vacations, and THOSE are pretty rare around here!

As far as the main computer goes though, I LOVE speed when I'm editing video (or doing anything else!) My main computer is a 3Ghz hyperthread Intel based computer, Biostar mobo, with 2GB of RAM and a pair of 250GB hard drives. Usually running Win98b.

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